Moving From Social Trust to the Sales Funnel

Rob Jager

00:00Today, we talk about how to transition from earning the buyer's trust to getting them into the sales funnel. So let me set this up. You've got the lead. They trust you as a business owner, but they don't necessarily trust you as what you can do.

00:12They don't know exactly what you do. You've networked with them. You know enough about them. They know enough about you, but they don't quite get what you do per se. And that's the position that Paul's clients find themselves in.

Announcer

00:23This is The Slow Pitch Podcast.

Rob Jager

00:25Welcome, everybody, to The Slow Pitch. And today we have Paul Jones, who is a guest. We have an interesting conversation in front of us.

00:32So, Paul, I know that you are a part of a program that helps people get connected in a networking sense. Give me a little high-level what that is, and we'll get into the challenges here of what you're running into. But tell us a little bit about that so we kind of get a feel for what you're doing. Give me a little high-level what you do.

Paul Jones

00:48Thanks, Rob. All right. So, high-level, I come from the outdoor industry. I was a river guide for a long time, outdoor guide for a long time. And then I came into the corporate world, and I came into business. And I noticed that the way that we kind of do business, especially in the B2B sense, it felt really, it just felt really odd, to be honest.

01:09I was going to conferences. I was listening to a lot of speakers. Networking wasn't very structured. Networking in general is kind of, that has kind of a gross taste to it in a lot of ways, or it's kind of old in a lot of ways. And so, for me, as putting on my guide hat, I was like, oh, well, what people really need is they need a guide. They need someone that's going to put together some kind of an experience that's going to guide them through an experience where they can get to know each other and do it in an authentic way.

01:36And so, what I started doing about six years ago is I started Bridgio. And what Bridgio does is it builds communities for companies as their primary go-to-market strategy. So, what we do is we put trust first, and we put the buyer persona first, and we basically create communities around them where they can feel safe to talk about and discuss challenges and things like that.

01:59And so, to kind of frame up our conversation today, I think this is a really relevant and important conversation, especially as you weigh in on this, Rob, because we're seeing a really big shift from traditional go-to-market stuff, outbound, inbound. Content is just, there's so much content. I think today people are looking more for connection than they are for content that they're looking to consume.

02:25And so, we're seeing this big shift where, you know, 10 years ago, when you were trying to go to market, it was about getting a big list and calling through that list and telling people what your solution was and just really hitting them on the head with what your solution was and looking for the person with the right pain. Today, I think it's where people's focus is, it's more about presence, it's more about understanding your client persona or customer persona, truly understanding what their needs are. And so, there's a lot of listening that needs to happen, and we're seeing this kind of big shift right now.

02:58My big question is, what does that look like from a sales perspective? I know we'll get into this a little bit more, but just to kind of frame up our conversation, that's kind of overview of what we're seeing is, is I came into the corporate world. That's like, oh, well, we could actually be putting together way better experiences, networking's old, we could do it way better. And then in addition to that, we're seeing kind of this combination of traditional marketing isn't working like it used to, outbound isn't working like it used to. So, there's a massive shift happening. Quick side story.

03:33One of my communities that I built was a community of CMOs, and I asked them, what's the future of marketing? And they all said, community. But I don't think they really know or understood what that means. And so, we're moving in this direction. The question is, how can we do it in a way that's authentic, that still creates opportunities?

Rob Jager

03:54Yeah. So, I mean, from what I could gather in our conversation, too, that you're setting up a situation where people can network and they feel safe to do that, right? And there's no sales pitch, no pressure, no, hey, I'm just shoving you my card because I'm networking. It's not the traditional networking you're setting up.

Paul Jones

04:13Exactly. So, what we essentially say is to a company, why are you spending money accessing networks that someone else has built? Why not invest in building your own social equity, your own social capital underneath your brand and your roof? So, rather than going to a networking event where maybe, you know, one person is your ideal persona, why not fill the entire table up with all of your persona?

04:36In order to do that, if you were to tell that persona, hey, come to my pitch, you're not going to fill up the table. So, the question then becomes, well, how can I get them at the table? And the way that we get them at the table is we say, well, this is social learning theory, essentially. But it's a mastermind, it's a roundtable, it's an opportunity to learn from your fellow peers and have discussions with them about real-time challenges and learn from them.

05:02And so, when we approach a company, that's how we approach it, is we say, let's build your own, we call it a broker brand, where you as a brand, your value isn't necessarily content, it's actually the brokering of new relationships. And so, to your point, like, you don't pitch in that kind of a scenario. You want to cultivate a space where people feel trusted, they feel seen, heard, and respected. And you as the beneficiary or you as the person that's building this type of a community, you get to learn from these folks, you know, how they talk about problems, what the problems are that they're dealing with, and you get to, you know, build and maintain relationships at scale.

Rob Jager

05:50And so, there's a learning component there where they're learning from each other or from, there's probably some sort of a centralized, here's a topic they're talking about and learning about, and that's how you get them to show up too? Or is there one individual in the group that's going to be talking, or is that, how does that fit?

Paul Jones

06:07This is kind of fun, because it varies by persona. It's probably not surprising, but every persona is different. Some personas, like our product leaders, for example, they just want to get in a breakout room and they just want to talk to each other. They want to find out what everyone is doing. You take someone a little bit more quiet, perhaps, like customer support executives, they want to learn from one of the community members, like have them give like a lightning talk, then they want to go into breakout rooms and have a discussion.

06:37So, every persona, funny enough, is a little bit different in how they want to connect and what that actually looks like. And so, we have a process where we figure that out. So, it varies.

Rob Jager

06:49Okay.

Paul Jones

06:49It varies.

Rob Jager

06:50But there's an educational component there sometimes. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.

Paul Jones

06:55Yes, but the topics are all driven by the participants.

Rob Jager

07:00Okay. And so, you've set this up as the platform. Then you have an individual who's a business owner who says, I want to join this platform. They then have the ability to invite people of what they're looking for, right? And you help them find those individuals.

Paul Jones

07:17Yeah, exactly.

Rob Jager

07:18Okay.

Paul Jones

07:18Yeah, I call that part connection chemistry. Because if you do a good job, if you're niched enough, if you get the right people in a room, you don't have to prompt them too much. They're going to be so excited to connect with each other and they're going to have so much in common that it's just going to be like sparks flying.

07:35I can't tell you how many meetings I've facilitated where at the end they go to the host and they say, hey, how much time do you spend trying to figure out who goes into breakout rooms? And of course, you know, our answer is, oh, so much time. We don't really say that. But the reality is, is that if you've done a good job defining who this group, who these meetups are for, they'll just get in a room and have a great time and really kick it off anyway.

Rob Jager

08:01Interesting. Okay. All right. So, that kind of gives us a little bit of a playing field as to what we're talking about, what the platform is. And so, the problem is what, if you wanted to clearly state what that problem is that you're running into?

Paul Jones

08:13Yes. Okay. So, and this is where I'm so excited to hear from you, Rob. Going back to what I was saying before, companies are used to getting a list and calling down on that list and saying, this is what I do. Do you want to buy?

Rob Jager

08:28Right.

Paul Jones

08:29So, very, very push. Very much so push. Of course, we have pull and all that. But that's where we're coming from. The change that needs to occur in the mindset of founders and the mindset of growth marketers is, okay, rather than let us message so much, let us drive insane email campaigns to push people to book that demo, we're going to have to switch.

08:55We're at this point right now where if community is the future, which means presence in the market, how do you then transform presence in the market and trust in the market that gets built to asking for opportunities? And that's why I picked your podcast, because The Slow Pitch podcast, it really is this new, I mean, it's not going to be new, but it is a mindset shift, I think, for a lot of founders and a lot of growth marketers is we want to be able to build trust in a market. So, let's just say that we've done a good job creating that trust. How then do we take the trust that's built in this market and turn it into opportunities without hurting the trust mechanism or the trust engine that we've built?

Rob Jager

09:38Yep.

Paul Jones

09:39We want to keep the trust engine going, we want to continue to provide value in this way, but how do we also convert that into and discover opportunities that we can engage with?

Rob Jager

09:49And so, are you running into the problem yourself, or is it the people that are putting these things together, who's the central person, right, are they the ones having that problem or issue?

Paul Jones

09:59Most of the founders that I work with, I tell them up front, look, this isn't going to be a pitch thing. But what I found is that often they will overcorrect, they will be so averse to any kind of sales that oftentimes, here's a perfect example, in the early days I built a community, and we were two years in, and one day we were having a meeting, and the host, my client, kicked off the meeting, and then one of the participants that had been there forever just interrupted and was like, hey, we don't even know what you do.

Rob Jager

10:34Oh, wow.

Paul Jones

10:35You should tell us what you do.

Rob Jager

10:37Yeah.

Paul Jones

10:37You've built enough trust with us, we want to know, you know? And so, that's an extreme example of where, hey, we're trying to build this thing, but we don't want to ruin it. We don't want to cannibalize it by trying to pitch. So, I think it's kind of an overcorrection type of situation.

10:54But I think that the reason why that overcorrection happens is it happens from fear of, I don't want to say the wrong thing and turn people off. The question is, how do you do that in a way where that trust engine can continue to move, but you also uncover opportunities? So, that's where I wanted to start.

Rob Jager

11:11Well, and you're pretty clear, too, that you do not want that. For you guys, you don't want that. That's not what the purpose of this is, to build trust, right? So, that's one component.

11:20So, I think everybody's like, oh, that actually is a good point. I should not be doing that in this setting. So, now, therefore, I'm not going to do anything. Yeah, that's, you know, it goes to the extreme, and that's not so good either.

11:31So, I think my first question would be, well, I've already asked questions, but one of my first questions would be, what is the onboarding process? And I don't need all the details, but, like, is there a conversation that you guys have early on that says, yes, I know we talk about, this is not a sales situation. But there are situations that it is okay to talk about yourself, because, after all, that's what this is all about.

11:54It's about networking. It's about talking about each other's business, and you have just as much of a right as anybody else to talk about it. After all, you're the one that's kind of hosting this, right? So, is there any conversations that you guys have about that?

Paul Jones

12:06Yeah, we do. There's a few opportunities where that can happen and where we've noticed that it kind of needs to happen. Otherwise, people are going to be feeling strange about the whole event, potentially.

12:17Usually, that's when we put together these virtual events or these virtual masterminds or roundtables. The host, my client, kicks it off, and that's when they're going to tell everyone, this is why we're gathering, and this is why I'm interested in hosting this gathering. So, that's an opportunity to do it. And you can do it really, really well.

12:36But the other thing that we do is, after an event is over with, we will schedule one-on-one appointments. And so, typically, the founder will get a whole bunch of meetings with the community members to learn from them, chat with them, get to know them, and, and, and, you know, essentially establish or maintain the relationship. So, those are also opportunities where, if you're good, you can ask the right questions to uncover the challenge that that prospect or that persona is dealing with that may lead to opportunities. But there's some mechanical things, there's some simple things that we keep missing that we need to improve in order to now take this asset that we've created and really turn it into pipeline later on down the road.

Rob Jager

13:25And why did you feel like this is a problem?

Paul Jones

13:28I think that, again, going back to the market changes, I don't know that people are really good at figuring out how to, all right, I'm good at building the relationship, but now I need to be good at uncovering an opportunity from that relationship.

Rob Jager

13:44Yeah. Well, I will say this. I mean, just generally speaking, in networking, I find that there are basically two different type of networkers, right? You got the pushing the cards all day long and doesn't stop talking. They just don't stop talking. Those are frustrating.

13:59And then you got the other end, which they don't ask, they don't talk about themselves at all. They ask questions of everybody and nobody, they walk away and everybody goes, who was that guy? Which is also not a bad position to be in. I mean, I do that a lot of times where I'm just asking a lot of questions and then somebody will ask me and then that engages the conversation.

14:18And so when the conversation starts, they're like, well, tell me what, I've talked about me, well, what do you do? And I tell them what I do and then they go, huh. And sometimes they go, oh, that's interesting. And then they walk away basically. Okay, they're not interested.

14:30But then I also get in these conversations where they're like, well, tell me what this and tell me about that. And so they start digging in with more questions, not because I dug in with them before, it's because they realize, hmm, there's, might be something I need. Let me dig a little bit and find out some more information. And that's how good networkers a lot of times will do it. But if they're never getting to that point where somebody's asking, that's also a problem. You know, you don't want that either.

14:53So what I like to think of is like, it is a mindset thing. It's the wrong mindset of, I can't do that because I feel gross pushing myself because it's not really pushing yourself, really. It's more like, this is what you do. You have to tell people, right? And so if they don't understand what you do, they can't ask for a meeting.

15:18So there has to be some sort of a cleaning out that mindset of, I shouldn't be telling people and getting to the point where they're actually talking about themselves. How do you help them get that out of their head? How do you do that now? Do you do that now? And how often have you had that conversation?

Paul Jones

15:38Uh, we have some great, you know, clients that have figured out how to do this. Um, and so what we'll do is, is we will take all of our new clients through a, like an onboarding where we'll, we'll show them, okay, this is what this client did. This is what this client did. We've actually found that everyone has to have their own kind of authentic style in how they do what you just said. Because in our motion, after the event's over with, we schedule all of these new 20-minute meetings and they're really get-to-know-you meetings. So they're not meant as a sales pitch meeting.

16:09So to your point, for the first 15 minutes of that call, it should all be questions that you are asking this participant. You are asking this persona. What's keeping you up at night? You know, um, what are you thinking about? What are some projects that you're working on this month? What do you need help with? Things like that. And tell me about you. So it's just tell me about you for 15 minutes.

16:32And what naturally happens is, is near the end, someone's like, well, I've spent the whole time talking now. Tell me about you. And at that point, if you've done a good job, I think asking the right questions, you should be able to understand where they're at, what it is that they need. And you can address those immediately. So at that point, it's not even a pitch, right? It's, it's a conversation based on what you've been talking about.

16:55Some of my clients do this really well. A lot of my clients are, take a while to figure that out. And, uh, that's, that's the loop that I want to close is how do I help them get to that part faster?

Rob Jager

17:09And so you're wanting to teach them how to do this a little better.

Paul Jones

17:12Yeah.

Rob Jager

17:12Yeah. So, I mean, a very easy, simple way when you, I mean, you listened in on some of these meetings, right? Yeah. Having a conversation at some point afterwards, giving them feedback. Do you guys, do you do that too? Or?

Paul Jones

17:23We haven't done much of that. That would be great. That's a great idea.

Rob Jager

17:26Well, it creates a feedback loop really fast. So like anytime you're learning something, it's, it's better if you get a, nope, that's not the answer quickly versus yes, that's correct. That's the way to do it.

17:37So the faster you can have that feedback loop, you know, if you schedule a 15 or 20 minute meeting with the, and you're sitting, listening in, having a conversation immediately after is ideal, right? Okay. Here's, here's what I got. I, I heard you asking all the right questions.

17:50But what I didn't hear you ask at the end of this to say something along the lines of, would it make sense for us to have an additional conversation at all? Or does that, is what I've told you just something that is nice to know, but other than that, it's not helpful? Because then you're, you open the door to say, yeah, no, I need more information because I actually am interested in this.

18:08And when they, when they, when they ask that question of the other person, the other person says back, yeah, I think we should sit down and do this again. Let's have another conversation. The response to that should also be, well, why do you say that? Like what would make you want to have another conversation? Sounds weird, but it automatically makes the other person explain to them, I'm interested.

18:30I'm, it's not just for, I want to have coffee. It's, I'm interested in this and I need to know more about what you're doing because I think it applies to me. And that almost invariably would show up that way and it's natural. And so to ask that question at the end is, it's a very soft, it wouldn't make sense for us to have another conversation or speak again or do another follow-up meeting?

18:52And then the other question after that, at some point would be, what's the timeframe? When do you think we should talk again? Because if they're like, well, we could talk again in six months, then it's not really an urgent thing. You know, like, okay, this is just a nice to know. And the question back would be, well, why do you think six months would be the right timeline? Right?

19:09If they're like, can we do it tomorrow? Or can we just stay on this call now? It's urgent, number one. Number two, why are you, why do you want to meet tomorrow? Is it something must be going on? What's going on? Like now you're in the conversation without sounding salesy, right? You're,

Paul Jones

19:24It's just so smart.

Rob Jager

19:25Right. You're just being, you're having a conversation. And the other thing is, is they're in it. The other person's in it. They're, they're now engaged. You've asked as a question and question and question about their business.

19:36You learn about their problems that they're having. Now you can start digging into more of the, the personal questions as to what, what that's doing to them personally. And how does that help? You know, what are you going to do about it? And how are you going to fix that? And what are you working on to, you know, what has your team done?

19:51Any of those types of questions so that you start to have more of that pain conversation. Because at that point, they're, they're ready to continue that conversation. And you'd be better off as a, as the, uh, the main person, if you will, to continue that conversation, not even let them get off the call. And I say, not let them get off. I mean, like, are you okay if we just spend another 15 minutes here? Like that kind of thing.

20:13Um, because I think that would be helpful. I mean, if I had one of those calls and I was sitting on the other end of that and I'm talking to somebody and they're like, yeah, I have this problem. And I, and I'm like, uh, dude, I could solve that. Like, that's not a, that's what we do. Then that's one of those situations where we should just continue to talk. And I would ask that question. Does that make sense?

Paul Jones

20:30Oh man. Yes. I, uh, I think that's absolutely brilliant. What you're getting at, Rob, is it's so important to try to do. I think naturally we don't want to do that because again, we're coming from a place where we're just constantly pushing our message.

Rob Jager

20:45Yeah.

Paul Jones

20:45We're pushing our pitch. So we get uncomfortable when it comes to, well, does it make sense for us to meet again? Or would you be open to us meeting again? And my best client, we are their, we've been their primary go-to-market strategy for the last five years.

21:00That's exactly what he does, yeah, is at the end of his call, he says, hey, does it make sense for us to continue to chat? Does it make sense for us to continue to meet? And then I love the timeline that you put there, which is, well, when, when is the next time that that would make sense? Because then you understand how urgent that, that problem is.

Rob Jager

21:18Yeah. And I think you've got a platform there that's already created the trust. So whereas, you know, if you're cold calling somebody, there is zero trust. You're trying to, yeah, you're trying to earn that. And no matter how many questions or how you word it, you're still a cold call.

Paul Jones

21:31They're annoyed. Yeah. You're still a cold call.

Rob Jager

21:33Yeah. So, um, when you think about how you're doing this, having trust as a component, bridging from the trust conversation in those settings, and then those follow-up little meetings that you're doing, it just reinforces the trust. And, and as a individual who's putting these things together, their own things together, they have to kind of think about it in terms of, it's not an immediate solution. Meaning nobody's going to sign up today just because you had this, had this networking event.

22:01And nobody's going to sign up today because you had a follow-up meeting. You've got to work them through the same process you would as somebody who called you, right? Somebody calls you out of the blue and says, hey, I need your service. That's fine. But you still need to go through the steps.

22:12You still need to work them through learning about why they need the steps, learn about the pains that they're having, figure out, does it even, what you do even solve that and, and, and put the financials to that. Like those things all still need to happen. So it's the same thing. The difference is you've got, you've broken through that trust barrier.

22:31And you've, you're, you're able to transition it much, much smoother. I just don't think that if you, if not you, but like, if you, if you're thinking of it as a person on that side, who's like, I can't, I can't, I feel like I'm doing a sales call. That's not really what you're doing though, if you're doing it right. If you're asking the right questions and you're, and you're saying the things back to them to repeat to them, that you're understanding of what they're going through, that's a valuable piece of trust that you're not going to get by just making a cold call, so.

Paul Jones

22:59Yeah, a hundred percent. Here's a, here's a question for you. This is a more case study tactile. So I was listening to one of my clients' calls and he was doing a great job asking.

23:11This was a post-event call. It's 20 minutes long. For the first 15 minutes, getting to know them, asking them about them and what they're doing, what their role is. And then he asked them what their challenge was. And I don't think this, this persona couldn't have pitched a better softball to, to him as an opportunity.

Rob Jager

23:28Okay.

Paul Jones

23:28She basically said, we, yeah, we, we're looking for, for things like this. And we've been toying with this idea. And, um, he ended the call. Like, I was like, oh, you just got the perfect opportunity. So how would you coach that founder, that person, um, when you, when you're doing your due diligence, when you're asking those great questions and you see an opportunity, how do you then bridge that to come into your side of the conversation and say, you know what, we can actually help you?

Rob Jager

23:57Yeah. I think my question immediately would be, how did he think, or how did you think it went? Like if I was, if you were, let's role play it out. You're him, her, I'm not sure if he or she, but let's say, um, you know, Paul, how'd you think that went?

Paul Jones

24:10Oh, it was perfect. She said the word and I don't know what happened. I just, I should have probably scheduled a follow-up. I, I don't know. I just wanted to, I didn't, I didn't want her to think I was going to jump all over that.

Rob Jager

24:26Hmm. All right. So what, what, what stopped you then? I mean, I know you didn't want to jump on it, but what made you feel that way?

Paul Jones

24:35Um, what made me feel that way was I felt like I was going to have to pitch it at that point. I was going to have to start really trying to drive aggressively in getting them to book a second meeting.

Rob Jager

24:50Okay. But did, did she, I mean, did she give you a response that was like, yeah, that I'm buying signal? Right. But she wasn't saying I'm ready to buy now, was she?

Paul Jones

24:59No.

Rob Jager

25:00So you wouldn't need to be pushing, pushing that too hard because she's not ready yet. I mean, if you, if you push her, she's going to be skittish. I mean, it's kind of like, I always equate sales as like, you have a cat.

25:11You're, if you ever had a cat, um, it took me a long time to finally, I had a cat and the cat would never come to me. Like it would just hang out and look at you. You try to coax it. It doesn't do it. But if you just sit down and ignore the cat, it comes to you.

25:25So it's, it's one of those situations where like, all right, well, you can't ignore this potential thing that just happened in front of you, but you can ask, well, what do you want to do about that? And if, if asking the question, well, what do you want to do about that, and she says back, well, can we talk about that? What can you guys do to help us? Now, now you're in the normal sales conversation. You don't have to push anything. She's pulling you.

25:48And it's a mindset that you're, you're not, you're not catching. And your feeling of wanting to push right away is, is understandable. But just like if I came to you and said, hey, come here, buy this, you're going to say no, because you don't know anything. I don't know you. You don't know me. You don't know if this is what you need or not.

26:06But she's already starting to have that conversation with you. Continue that conversation. Well, what do you, when she comes back and says, well, I think I need more information. I want to learn more about what you do. 'Cause I think you can help me fix this. And your response says, well, why do you think that?

26:20Now she's going to tell you what she understands of you, knows what's going on. Why she, why she's having that conversation with you. And you're learning a lot by doing that too. So you're just letting her pull you along at that stage. There's a point where you have to kind of guide and direct.

26:34But right now, um, there, there is, and I've, I've really not gotten much into this in the show, but there's a, there's a mentality of when somebody wants something, they act like a kid, they act like a child. And when you act like a child, you're not thinking straight. I want ice cream. I'm going to go get that ice cream. That's what I want.

26:52Even as an adult, you drive, you go through the drive-thru and you're like, yeah, you know what? I could buy that cookie. I could get that ice cream. Do you need that? No. Do you have your adult sitting next to you? No.

27:02But everybody has an adult in their head. They have a parent in their head and they have a child in their head. And she's sitting there as a child saying, I need your business without saying exactly those words. But she's saying, I want to talk more to you. And your job is to kind of become that parent.

27:18That's really nice saying, that's, that's great. I really want to help you out here. What do you, what do you think? Why do you think I'm a good person to do this with you? Why do you think you need more help?

27:28Um, nurture her along, help her get to the point where she's asking for more questions and more information from you. And you start doing that. Now, all of a sudden she's more of a child still, like, right? She's, she's asking more. She's wanting more out of that.

27:44And then at some point you're going to have to transition to an adult conversation where you're like, okay, we've talked about all these issues. We talked about all these problems. Another nurture point where you're going to say, listen, it's not unusual. We hear this all the time. I mean, this is common and it's stuff that we work on as well. So we've helped a lot of people do this too.

28:02Should we talk a little bit about how much time and effort and money and different things that that's going to take to get this work through? Do you want to talk about that? Or do you want to just skip that part and not talk about that and not do anything about it at this point? That's okay. I mean, like, what do you want to do now? And that kind of brings them to the next step. And now you're having an adult conversation about money.

28:18So, I mean, that's kind of the way I would look at this conversation with that individual of, you know, you're letting your own child get in the way because you, you feel afraid, right? And so when you're afraid to make those questions and conversations happen and let somebody talk about their problems, it gets, it is scary. But the more that they talk about their problems, the more you can understand their need, the more that you can get them to the point where they're saying, hey, I need this. I want to do this. Right? Does that answer the question? I don't know if that answers it.

Paul Jones

28:46100%.

Rob Jager

28:47Okay.

Paul Jones

28:47Yeah. I love that example too of child. My final question for you is, how do you sit? I mean, because as I'm looking at all of our founders that we work with, you're really good. Like you actually haven't used the same question in any of your examples.

Rob Jager

29:02No.

Paul Jones

29:03So you're like channeling, I don't know, some kind of question energy where it's coming up differently, right?

Rob Jager

29:09Yeah.

Paul Jones

29:10How can I help my clients get that question mindset?

Rob Jager

29:17Yeah.

Paul Jones

29:17The question is the bridge.

Rob Jager

29:19Yes.

Paul Jones

29:19In all of your examples, the question has been the bridge.

Rob Jager

29:22Yes.

Paul Jones

29:22So how do you build up that discipline around not pitch slapping, but moving into questions?

Rob Jager

29:29So I think to me, the easiest way to put it is stay engaged in the conversation, listen to the person and be curious about what they're saying. And the more curious you are, the more that you're trying to clarify what they're saying and understand their problems, the more that those questions come out naturally, they're more customized, if you will, to the person. That's really what it comes down to. It's not a, it's not a rote set up questions, that kind of stuff.

29:53I will say this though, when you're in sales, there are things that you hear that are problems that you're going to have the same problems. You're going to hear the same things and you're going to want to skip the question. Don't skip the question. Because although you've heard it, you know what their answer is going to be. Don't skip the question.

30:11Because when you ask the question, they are then in that position where they're still in their pain point. They're still thinking like a child and they're, they're giving you the information that you need in order to help them make the decision and help you get to the solution that they need. Because if you match those two up, it's a no-brainer.

30:27I can't tell you how many times I've had a situation where you're having a conversation with somebody, you're asking all the questions and you start to find out that it's costing them a certain number of dollars per month or quarter or whatever that is. And the solution that they're after is, is a fraction of that. And, and it's a no-brainer.

30:42But if they don't understand the effect of not doing it by not asking those questions, and I just skipped the question because I know the answer is going to be, you're never going to get the sale because they don't work themselves through the process. The process is the key and the questions are a hundred percent the process.

Paul Jones

31:00Brilliant. Yep. And that's honestly how you maintain trust too.

Rob Jager

31:04Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Jones

31:05Because it's, it's that curiosity that really kind of leads you down that path. So now you're able to, to maintain the trust that you built already. You're not, you're, it's not like a bank account. You're not taking trust out.

Rob Jager

31:16Yeah.

Paul Jones

31:17If, if you're doing it correctly, you're actually adding deposits into the bank.

Rob Jager

31:21Yes. But they feel like you get them and you under, they, you understand them. Right. The fear though, is if you do too much, sometimes you can get them into too much pain, if you will. And you get them to the point where they're like, that guy scared me.

31:34I don't, you don't want to get into that position because if you get into that position, they won't call you back. 'Cause they're like, I told you way too much. And I never, I'm now I'm going to way overpay. You know what I mean?

31:42So it's gotta be a, a little bit of a, of a give and take in some of that, but knowing that difference is, is going to be the key. And, and somebody that's afraid to ask those questions, that's something in their own head because they have to understand it's critical to know this information that the other person needs to know the information. It's not all for you, that the salesperson, it's for the other person to know and understand those issues and those things so that they can apply it to their buying decision. So that's what you want, right?

Paul Jones

32:12So, and before you go too far down the rabbit hole, you could always end that by just saying, when does it, does it make sense for us to talk?

Rob Jager

32:19Yes, that's exactly what would end up happening. Yes. Or what's I, you know, you get to that point where you've got all the information, all the numbers, you kind of talk through some of that stuff. If you've gotten to that point, whatever that is, and to just end it with, what do you want to do next? And it is the easiest close you'll ever have.

32:34'Cause they're going to go, well, how, how do I sign? What do I need to do? What do you mean? What do you need to do? Well, I need to, what do you mean? What do you mean? Well, what do I write you a check?

32:43Like I've had it where I'm, I've gone through the sales call and I've gone through a couple of meetings and at some point they're like, okay, what do I just write a check or do I hand him my credit card? And, and I'm like, I wasn't there. And I'm like, were you sure you want to do that right now?

32:57We're not there yet. And he's like, no, it's, this is it. This is exactly what I need. And we got the numbers out here to do the number, but like it happens. Right. So, um.

Paul Jones

33:04But that literally happened to me last week, that exact same scenario. It was amazing. I was, I was kind of thrown off. I was like, uh, well, the next thing that we do is blah, blah, blah. You know, like.

Rob Jager

33:15Yeah. And all that sometimes fits into personalities too. So likely a high D personality or somebody that can make decisions quickly. That happens sometimes. But it is, it is, it is crazy what can happen if you're asking all the right questions, timing everything right, and just asking that question, what do you want to do next? And it does make a difference.

33:31And the best part is about asking that question of what do you want to do next is sometimes they're like, well, no, that's it. That's all. I just wanted to learn a little bit. And thanks. Have a good day. Like, okay. I wasn't going anywhere.

Paul Jones

33:41Yeah. And that's fine.

Rob Jager

33:42That's totally fine. So. All right. Well, Paul, I hope this helped. I don't know if you've got something out of this.

Paul Jones

33:46Very.

Rob Jager

33:47Um, if there's anything I can do to help you in the future, let me know. But, uh, I really appreciate you joining on the show. It was, it was good stuff.

Paul Jones

33:53Amazing. Thank you. And thanks for the onboarding question, because now this episode is going to be part of my client onboard.

Rob Jager

33:59Oh, perfect. Good.

Paul Jones

34:00So there we go.

Rob Jager

34:00Excellent. Excellent. Sounds good. Well, Paul, nice to meet you again on person line and, and, and answer some questions. And hopefully that helps somebody out there listening.

34:08Uh, for those of you that are all listening, just remember, we set this show up so that a lot of salespeople out there are talking too much. They're trying to go rush through the sales process. They're just not spending enough time learning about the buyer's real problems. And that's kind of why this show is here.

34:22So hopefully this, uh, particular episode helped people out and hopefully it'll help you stop the ghosting, if you will. It got to stop the people from, uh, you know, not earning your trust and all that good stuff. So, uh, until next time, remember, slow down and close more.

Announcer

34:37Thank you for listening to The Slow Pitch. Do you have a question about sales? Call or text your question at 608-708-SLOW. That's 608-708-7569, or you can email that to [email protected]. Slow down and close more.